Episode 54: Creating Symmetry: Designing Systems for the Learning We Want
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Episode Summary:
In this episode, Katie sits down with Dr. Sarah Fine, an educator, researcher, and author whose work focuses on creating more powerful and humanizing learning experiences for both young people and adults.
Sarah began her career as a high school English teacher and instructional coach, and has since worked across research, teacher development, and school redesign. She is the co-author of In Search of Deeper Learning and Whole Learners, Whole Systems, and she is currently conducting research within the California Secondary School Redesign Pilot Program.
Together, Katie and Sarah explore what it takes for systems to move beyond the test-score logic of the No Child Left Behind era and toward learner-centered experiences. Sarah shares what she has seen in districts like Anaheim Union, Lindsay Unified, and San Bernardino City, and why steady work, shared vision, and symmetry between how adults and learners are treated matter so much when redesigning schools.
Key topics covered include:
🎯 Doing steady work by choosing a shared vision and sticking with it, as Anaheim Union High School District has with its 6Cs framework
🌱 Creating low-stakes conditions where educators can try, fail forward, and learn their way into change, as Lindsay Unified did
🪞 Building symmetry between how adults and learners are treated, from High Tech High’s relational culture to Lindsay’s “what do you need to succeed?” stance
🤝 Cultivating systemness so everyone from board members to learners helps co-create the system rather than having it done to them
🗽 Learning from New York State’s move beyond Carnegie units and what it might mean for California’s redesign efforts
🛠️ Integrating career technical education with academic rigor in San Bernardino City so learners keep their options open
Related Resources:
- Publication: School Redesign Playbook
“School redesign is not about surface-level innovation. It’s about reimagining the purpose and design of school to align with the science of learning, human development, and the realities of today’s world. This Playbook draws on Learner-Centered Collaborative’s work with schools and districts nationwide, highlighting communities that have redesigned school and learning in ways that reflect their unique contexts and aspirations.” - Blog: Knowing What to Measure and When During Your Redesign Journey
“Leaning into activity and feedback metrics gives leaders an honest, defensible way to show progress while the harder work of realigning what gets measured long-term continues alongside it.” - Blog: From Training to Professional Learning: Building a Learner-Centered Culture for Educators
“Learner-centered systems thrive when educators are part of ongoing communities of practice where they can test ideas, gather feedback, reflect, and refine. Safe spaces for inquiry, coaching, and shared learning build the trust and capacity necessary for transformation.”
